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Post by Arjan Hut on May 8, 2019 10:21:48 GMT -5
(113. License number of getaway car reported by Tom Tilson)What do you think of Tilson's testimony? Was he involved in the Tippit shooting?If he lied, did he do this to give himself an alibi? The reason I linked this item to item #75: Was Tilson part of a plot to frame Jack Ruby?There are more indications that Oswald and Ruby were being framed together. More on that soon.
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Post by Michael Capasse on May 8, 2019 11:57:34 GMT -5
Here are some notes I have on Tom Tilson:
Officer Tilson said his seventeen years of police experience, coupled with the news by then pouring over the radio, prompted him to give chase. He lost his quarry after a while, but – as his daughter confirmed – managed to get the license number of the car. He reported the incident, and the number, to Dallas Police Homicide that afternoon. Officer Tilson's account appears to have been passed over in the chaos of the hours that followed, and there is no record of the car number he noted.
"From Anthony Summers, Not in your lifetime, (p. 59)
Dallas Morning News, Sunday August 20, 1978
"AND I SAW all these people running to the scene of the shooting," he said. "By that time, I had come across under Stemmons. Everybody was jumping out of their cars and pulling up on the median strip. "But here's one guy coming from the railroad tracks. He came down that grassy slope on the west side of the triple underpass, on the Elm Street side.
He had a car parked there, a black car. And he threw something in the back seat and went around the front hurriedly and got in the car and took off. "I was on Commerce Street right there across fromit, fixing to go under the triple underpass going (east) into town. I saw all of this and I said, 'That doesn't make sense, everybody running to the scene and one person running from it' " Tom Tilson, Dallas Morning News, Sunday August 20, 1978"
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Post by Arjan Hut on May 8, 2019 13:42:16 GMT -5
"Tippit was covering Tilson's beat that day while Tilson was off work, he said. Three days later, Tilson was a pallbearer at Tippit's funeral."
Michael, what if Tilson hadn't been off work that day?
I've added a connection to another person who had a day off on 22-11-1963: James Powell.
And there were more who had a day off yet still managed to get themselves involved with the events of that day!
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Post by Arjan Hut on Oct 10, 2020 5:04:57 GMT -5
Is Tom Tilson a Credible Witness?
By Peter R. Whitmey
From the Fall/Winter 1993-94 issue of Back Channel
You won't find any reference to Dallas Police patrolman Tom G. Tilson, Jr. in the Warren Commission volumes, despite the fact that he allegedly provided important information to the homicide squad of the Dallas Police on November 22, 1963. Tilson did come forward in August of 1978, however. and was interviewed by a staff member of the HSCA (House Select Committee on Assassinations). A brief summary of his account was included in the 1980 book Conspiracy by Anthony Summers (who mistakenly referred to him as "John Tilson") and a lengthier description of him appears in the 1989 book Crossfire by Jim Marrs. Tilson also appeared as a witness for the defense in the mock trial of Lee Harvey Oswald originally broadcast on Spotlight, and later on A. & E. Tilson even made an appearance along with his friend Madeleine Brown at the "open bar" gathering that took place prior to the first annual Assassination Symposium on John F. Kennedy (ASK) held at the Hyatt Regency hotel in Dallas in November 1991 (looking amazingly like Lyndon Johnson).
Tilson has claimed for the last fourteen years (and possibly longer) that on November 22, 1963 he was driving towards Dealey Plaza on Commerce Street with one of his daughters seated beside him just as the motorcade came through the triple underpass. He had already heard on his police radio of the shooting and as he approached the area immediately to the west of the railroad tracks, Tilson spotted a man sliding down the steep bank on the north side of Elm Street. He noticed the man throw something into a dark-colored car on the driver's side, then get in and immediately drive quickly away towards Industrial Boulevard several blocks west of the assassination site.
Even though Tilson was not on duty that day, he instinctively turned around on Commerce and followed the man, who was heading in the direction of Ft. Worth. Although he managed to approach the car close enough to get a good look at the driver, whom he described as matching the physical features of Jack Ruby. He did not attempt to force the driver off the road, but instead he had his daughter, Dinah, write down the license number, make, and model on a slip of paper (to this day he can not recall what kind of car the man was driving, however). Once he reached his home, he gave the information to someone in the homicide department of the Dallas Police, which he described in his 1978 testimony as being elitist, resenting "...any encroachment on its authority." He never heard back from the Department again, and after holding onto the slip of paper for ten years, finally discarded it, around the time of his wife's death.
In order to possibly learn more about Tilson's alleged experience, I wrote to him in January of 1991, and after not receiving a reply, phoned several months later. Initially, I found him to be quite credible, learning, for instance, that he would have definitely forced the driver to pull over had his daughter not been in the car. He also mentioned that they were heading for Dealey Plaza to pick up another daughter who was watching the motorcade; he even recalled seeing LBJ's car go by as he approached the triple underpass. Although he could not remember what kind of car he had followed, he indicated that it was a middle-sized sedan and black in color, with no noticeable features such as fins. Naturally, I was interested in speaking to his daughter (whose married name is referred to by Jim Marrs), but was told by Tilson that she refused to discuss the subject. He also mentioned being advised not to answer any questions posed in writing, in that he had been "burned" by a writer from Chicago some years ago.
In November of 1991, I finally visited Dallas for the first time, attending the symposium not far from Dealey Plaza. In the course of walking around the assassination site numerous times, I became aware of the fact that the area adjacent to the railroad tracks to the west is not paved as one might expect but, in fact, is a fairly large, flat lawn.
Given that film footage shows people on the sidewalk beside Elm Street west of the triple underpass, it seems hard to believe that only Tilson saw a car parked near the bank in the middle of the lawn. It Is also likely that the lawn would have been wet from the morning rain, and therefore, a car would leave tire tracks, especially if it sped away at a high rate of speed. Finally, it is very likely that those people standing on the sidewalk, still waving at the President, would be aware of a car driving over the lawn and onto the street.
While in Dallas I spoke to Tilson from my hotel room, indicating to him my surprise that he was not included on the panel of witnesses at the symposium. He seemed quite disappointed that he had not been invited, nor had he been contacted by Oliver Stone's research team headed by Jane Rusconi earlier that year. I also learned from Tilson that his daughter, Dinah, had not been as young as I had imagined in 1963, and, in fact, was 18 years old. For reasons he did not go into, I learned that she had not spoken to her father for many years. He mentioned that he had been going out with Madelene Brown (L.B.J.'s alleged mistress) since meeting her on a talk show, and seemed, in general, to be enjoying the media attention he was receiving.
When I arrived home I wrote a one-page letter to Tom dated Nov. 29, 1991, outlining the reasons why I had come to the conclusion that his allegations were nothing more than a hoax, and indicated in a postscript having sent a photocopy to Jim Marrs, who appears to have no doubts as to his credibility. As of this date (September 21, 1993), I have not heard back from either Tilson or Marrs.
I believe it is important that all allegations made regarding the assassination of President Kennedy be thoroughly checked out and scrutinized, particularly when it applies to individuals who did not visibly come forward immediately following the tragedy in Dallas.
Peter R. Whitmey is a teacher and freelance writer living in Abbotsford, B.C., Canada.
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Post by Michael Capasse on Oct 10, 2020 8:36:08 GMT -5
HI Arjan - Thanx for posting that - I wanted to respond to your concerns about Tom Tilson, and was looking for a place to do it. There are a lot of stories over the years, so many come and go, hundreds really. I've heard many. I try to set a standard of corroboration by looking for another witness that said or saw the same thing. It has been my first and or strongest gauge for verification. In this case, IMO, it is the daughter. "I know there was a man," Mrs. Ladner said. "Seems like I saw him right before he was getting into the car. I think that was about the same time daddy told me to try to get the number down. But by then, we were past (the car) and we couldn't get a good view of the number... I was trying to listen to the police calls. And I remember him saying, 'Try to write. Write this down,' or something. And I grabbed a pen." "from the article gregwagnersite.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/Dallas-Morning-News_Ex-officer-suspects-he-chased-2nd-gun-.pdf++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If not for her, I could toss it. In the article you posted the author said Tilson would not let him speak to the daughter, and adds, Tom was afraid of having been burned by writers once before. I can't explain what people won't do, but there are plenty of reasons for witnesses to back off the press and media in a case of this magnitude and publicity that included victims or at the least hounding threats by the FBI. Nobody wants that. The next tie I have is where this occurred. I also believe Julia Ann Mercer when she said she saw a man in a truck stopped by that area in the morning. And another man took what looked like a gun case out of the back and up the hill. Into that same area - on the west side of the overpass - outside of the plaza - the other side. The article you posted said witnesse would have seen the car driving up on the lawn. That is not true - there is a small clearing on the other side of the RR, behind that billboard. One would have to drive up a sidewalk curb, and could tuck the car away - I'd bet it was already a DPD speed trap. IMO Mercer saw the gun go in. Tilson saw the gun come out. Men at both scenes were identified as Ruby - I can't say that on Tilson, 'cause I think Jack ran down Houston to the DMN right after assassination. But the timeline fits the possibility of Jack in the morning though - He wasn't seen until near 11 at DMN - IMO Mercer saw it sometime before that. Mercer was sure he looked right at her. I'm trying to find the aerial map I found that shows that area with a clearing tucked away behind that sign on the other side of the plaza I cant find it again and didn't think I'd need it. (hate when that happens) There is an unmarked black car around these scenes - one drives around Lee Bowers lot just before (talking on a two way radio)another beep beeps at the rooming house when Lee is in his room. Still another is seen by Tom Tilson. I believe they are all the same car - unmarked Police or detective - FBI perhaps. As far as DPD doing nothing with the call in from Tom. I would say don't forget Roger Craig that told Fritz to his face that he saw the suspect get into a car at the scene Fritz ignored him, looked for no other evidence , and put Lee on a bus in dispute of 3 other witnesses found by the FBI. I can't speak for what someone didn't do, or should have done, but this case has demonstrated the lone nut assassin narrative from the start. For all these reasons I believe Tom Tilson.
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Post by Arjan Hut on Oct 14, 2020 5:09:53 GMT -5
For all these reasons I believe Tom Tilson. There were two elements to the story which I reckoned supported Tilson's story: * His daughter, who was with him and backed him up. * The fact that a suspicious black car was indeed followed to Fort Worth. On the other hand: If Tilson made up his story, he may have had a good reason for that (an alibi perhaps) and why would his own daughter not help him to convince the public? Apparently, Tilson came with his story around the time the investigation into the JFK assassination would be re-opened. Maybe he needed an alibi, just in case it would be a genuine investigation. The car (see: 323 The original negatives of photos of Donald Wayne House arrest) belonged to Don House, and apparently the DPD didn't get the lead from Tilson, but from a lady at a gas station (see the article in #323) who asked House what happened in Dallas. House gave a description of the suspect he had just heard on the radio and the lady then called the police, because House fit the description. I find this a strange story as well. So, is it possible there was a car parked where Tilson said it was? Could be, but I don't think this is likely and I also don't believe Tilson would have been the only one (plus his daughter) to notice this spectacular getaway and the ensuing car chase. I have some questions about Tilson himself: * Why did Tilson take the day off? Was he one of the officers who refused to work that day because they didn't want to 'work for that bastard Kennedy'? Was Tilson also a Clan-member or a member of the Birch Society like many of his colleagues? * Was Tippit really working Tilson's beat that day? Says so in an Earl Golz article. So if Tippit hadn't worked, would Tilson have been shot? If Tilson wasn't approaching Dealey Plaza at 12:30, and chasing a black phantom car after that, where was he really? What was he doing? With the license plate nr. missing, you either have faith in Tilson or not. One thing I didn't realise until I read the Whitmey article: Tilson kept the information for years and then destroyed it himself!
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Post by Michael Capasse on Oct 16, 2020 13:06:18 GMT -5
HI Arjan... Be careful not to confuse the cars. that House car was green and white, the Tilson car was black. My understanding (I think he said it in '86 trial) Tilson phoned it in. He was in his personal car, which would not have a 2-way - but receiver only, so he heard the news, gave chase, then stopped at a pay phone and called in the license. He expected it to have been given to Capt Fritz. Who knows? He testified he didn't get the name of the officer he gave it to. It was not broadcasted
That daughter is the younger one of two - although I don't know how old, I would find it hard to believe she would lie for him. and I'm not sure why? He doesn't need any alibi and she is the strongest case he has. On throwing it away himself, he testified, he had to clean out an entire house when his wife died. A lifetime worth of stuff, he told Bugs, he held the paper in his hand, had second thoughts,
then figured they didn't want it then - so long ago - it must've been nothing.
I can't qualify what I think someone is supposed to do as any fact of truth.
And I recently cleaned my elderly parents house - married since they were 17, father will be 90 in March. I might have done the same thing, there is so much else to think about.
As far as expecting someone to see this car, perhaps they had. But there is no reason to expect anyone to have to had seen it on the other side of the overpass Outside the plaza really. Presidents car has already gone by, black car pulls a U-ee to the Industrial Tilson already headed in that direction - not sure it would be an obvious chase in hot pursuit as it happens. As far as Tippit having worked or not...I'd go on to speculate IMO, JD was not in on it, but knew some things that were part of the setup IMO he was used and had some knowledge for which he could not remain. So reassignments from the up above at DPD was essential.
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Post by Tom Sorensen on Oct 17, 2020 5:24:31 GMT -5
If Tilson's story is true why isn't that car visible in the McIntyre photo showing the limo on the west side of the underpass?
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Post by Michael Capasse on Oct 17, 2020 6:26:08 GMT -5
I believe it is in an area behind that billboard. This early picture of the plaza shows a clearing. The billboard in the McIntyre picture is different than seen here and more forward
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Post by Michael Capasse on Oct 17, 2020 9:03:35 GMT -5
Dangling Witnesses
Tom Tilson is not the only witnesses like this. There are quite a few others. Call them "dangling witnesses", there was no additional calling in the 70s.
Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Carolyn Walthers, or Ruby Henderson. Arnold Rowland fell off the earth. He and others should have been tracked down by the HSCA. Looking at the Committee's record there was so much essential questioning that was needed and it was the last chance. That investigation was fifteen years later, the country was ready to hear the answer, and I think they knew there was a sham.
Now, 60 years on, everybody is dead, and what was left-out is being re-written. 5-6 seconds has now become as much as 11 seconds, Documents and photographs disappearing from the web in the last 5 years. I am glad I grabbed them when I did. The latest smear on Jim Garrison is a complete disgrace. It is still happening.
And we're all stuck, the nutters can never show proof Lee Oswald acted alone, anymore than good research can prove conspiracy. Like a jig-saw with many pieces missing, the picture is there, it is clear, but it cannot be finished.
Even the best research will never fill in the details. It has been destroyed in a mangled mess, just another dead end. It is best to document what we can. Hold it tight.
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