|
Post by Michael Capasse on Oct 29, 2020 9:22:58 GMT -5
The Rifle ClipThere isn't much information concerning the rifle clip in the original Warren Commission Investigation. CE 575, is the small brass holding clip that is inserted into the rifle when loading more than one cartridge. Lt Day testified he created a document on Nov. 22 nd, unfortunately, there is no letterhead or notary witness. No other Dallas Police inventory documents record finding the clip inside or outside the gun at TSBD. It was expected to fall out when the last bullet is chambered, but for some reason remained in the gun. Undocumented, until Day said he got back to the office and dictated the markings and details of the rifle. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The Assassination of John F. Kennedy: A Complete Book of Facts by James P. Duffy and Vincent L. Ricci, "An ammunition clip is a small, bluish metal spring-loaded cartridge receptacle used to load automatic and semiautomatic rifles. It permits rapid firing, which is otherwise not possible by manually loading a new cartridge into the firing chamber after each shot. Whether or not an ammunition clip for the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle was actually found in the Texas School Book Depository Building remains questionable.
The original inventory of articles found in what became known as the sniper's nest, where Lee Harvey Oswald allegedly was when he fired at Kennedy, does not list an ammunition clip despite an otherwise meticulous detailing of every item recovered along with the rifle. According to assassination researcher Sylvia Meagher, the first reference to a clip surfaces in the Warren Report, published in September 1964.
Prior to that, no mention of an ammunition clip appears anywhere. Some researchers, seeking to explain the apparent absence of a clip, have advanced the theory that Oswald reloaded the rifle manually and that someone later added the clip to the inventory. Most experts agree that without using a clip Oswald could not possibly have fired more than one round before the president's car sped from the scene, indicating that the additional shots had to have come from a second source." +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ HSCA | Monty Lutz Committee's Firearms PanelMr. Edgar. The cartridge clip was removed from CE-139 by Lieutenant Day of the Dallas Police Department on November 22, 1963 at the crime laboratory for the police department. Shouldn't a clip automatically fall out once the last cartridge has fed into the chamber? Mr. Lutz. This rifle is designed to incorporate that feature so that the last cartridge is stripped out of the clip, then that allows the clip itself to fall or to drop from the opening that you see in the bottom of the box magazine. However, in many cases, and in this particular case, where we functioned the rifle, fed cartridges through it, we found this clip to stay in the rifle after the last round had been stripped and fed into the chamber. Because the lips or the edges of the clip many times will open up, they will spring against the walls on the inside of the box magazine and it will hang up in that area [sic], and even though it is supposed to drop out, many times it will hang up in the box area. ------------------------------------------------------------- Response from THE GUN THAT DIDN'T SMOKE | Walter F. Graf and Richard R. Bartholomew www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/gtds.html"That explanation seems reasonable enough. But it is not. It is true that the clip must be deformed to have any chance of getting as stuck as this one. But once bent, it stays bent. Commission Exhibits (CEs) 574 and 575 are photographs of the alleged clip in its normal, unbent condition. And five years after the HSCA reported the clip deformed, Life magazine photographer Michael O'Neill photographed it in normal condition for Life's November 1983 issue. "Many times will" also means "many times won't." Metal expands when heated and can alter its shape. But during the HSCA tests of the loading mechanism, the rifle should have been cool. In addition, CE 541 (3), a photograph of the clip stuck in the magazine reproduced on page 83 of the Warren Report, shows it in a cool rifle. Surely the rifle had not been fired for some time before that photography session. Is Lutz suggesting that the clip's sides spring out when cool and then return to a normal shape in the heat of firing? If such a violation of the laws of physics occurs with this rifle and clip, how then could the rifle have "contained a clip" when found?"
|
|
|
Post by Michael Capasse on Oct 29, 2020 9:23:28 GMT -5
Clip to ReleaseThere were only 2 types of guns during WWII that used a clip fed mechanism. One was the Carcano, the other was an M-1 Garand, the difference is the Carcano ejects the clip when the last round is chambered, the Garand ejects when the last round is fired. In this case when the 4th round was chambered, the clip should have been released. According to the Warren Commission, the clip remained in the gun, then was brought back and noted only one time as "SMI 952". There is nothing on DPD inventory reports of a rifle clip, and it only appears documented by the Commission after January '64. Lt Day's note does nothing to hinder any suspicion of two officers reporting a different gun to the FBI for 3 days. With a handwritten date and signature it could have been prepared at any time. There is nothing to officiate the document. Meanwhile, the only contemporaneous affidavits for the finding of the gun (5x) described it as a 7.65 German Mauser. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ THE GUN THAT DIDN'T SMOKE | Walter F. Graf and Richard R. Bartholomewwww.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/gtds.html"Despite the fact that the alleged murder weapon that allegedly belonged to Oswald reportedly was clearly stamped "Made Italy" and "Cal. 6.5," local authorities and the media seemed to finally agree that it was a 7.65 German-made Mauser. Had as few as two different descriptions continued to dominate news reports the rest of the day, one of them being an Italian, or a clip-fed weapon, an argument could be made for confusion. But that is not what happened. The supposed murder weapon was not "called...most everything," as Captain Will Fritz testified. Initial descriptions quickly gave way to a short-lived consensus for a 7.65 German Mauser, not further confusion. Probably due to the earlier conflicting reports, reporters remained skeptical. But they asked if it was a Mauser, and were told, tacitly at least, that it was. As different as these early descriptions seemed from each other and from the weapon the Warren Commission finally chose, there is one difference they all have in common. It is the one difference from the Mannlicher-Carcano they all share. It is the key to the conspiracy. None of them can use an ammunition clip. Mr. EISENBERG - Is there any reason that you can think of why someone might call that a five-shot clip?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir, unless they were unfamiliar with it. There is an area of confusion in that a different type of rifle shooting larger ammunition, such as a .30-06 or a German Mauser rifle, uses five-shot clips, and the five-shot clip is the common style or size of clip, whereas this one actually holds six."Frazier limited his answer to unfamiliarity with the clip itself. The full answer reveals the deception. The confusion is over the term, not the function. How could weapons expert Frazier not know this? Confusing a charger with a clip is only possible through complete and total ignorance of the way rifles are loaded. And that irrefutable fact leads, as the reader will see, to conclusive proof of conspiracy in the JFK assassination." "...had the critics known about the charger-clip discrepancy, they might have asked, along with questions about other rifles, slightly different questions: Why would a description of a superficially similar but non-clip-fed rifle prevail for at least twenty-four hours (and at most three days) after a clip-fed rifle became the most important piece of evidence? Was it because it prevented questions from being asked about ammunition clips? Why avoid such questions? Was it because no clip was found with the gun? Did the crime scene investigators replace the clip? Why would the crime-scene investigators lie and fabricate evidence to hide a rifle's normal firing condition? Did they confuse the Mannlicher-Carcano's feeding system with that of the more familiar M-1 Garand, thinking it needed a clip if a round was in the chamber? Did they know, therefore, that the rifle was planted? And if they knew that, did they knowingly help frame Lee Harvey Oswald?"
|
|
|
Post by Michael Capasse on Oct 29, 2020 9:23:51 GMT -5
Stocked & Fully LoadedThere is no evidence of where Lee purchased this clip or ammunition. The report said the bullets were currently available, while a thorough sweep by the Dallas FBI found none. Western Cartridge said the bullets were no longer manufactured, and hadn't been, while the report claimed they were Based these previous inaccuracies in availability, there is no reason to believe the clip was available anywhere. Frazier never did say he actually bought one, and doesn't describe the ammunition as identical, or where he bought that. Those bullets were packaged in boxes of 20. Isn't it odd Lee only had 4, with no container, or empty casings? There were 6.5 bullets available at HL Green Stores, but with a very different load. John Brinegar told the FBI only the ammunition manufactured by the Italians and the 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano could be used in the Italian Carcano rifle. Additionally, there is NO evidence this clip was readily available anywhere. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Robert Frazier | WC TestimonyMr. EISENBERG - Have you had occasion to purchase ammunition for this rifle? Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. Mr. EISENBERG - Does the ammunition come in the clip? Mr. FRAZIER - Normally it does not. The ammunition that we have purchased for this rifle comes in 20-shot boxes. It is possible and I say this as a result of reading advertisements--to buy ammunition for this rifle, and to receive a clip or clips at the same time, but not necessarily part of the same shipment. Mr. EISENBERG - Would you deduce, therefore, that the clip-- that someone wishing to shoot that rifle and use a clip in the rifle would have purchased the clip later? Mr. FRAZIER - They would have to acquire it from some source, yes. Mr. EISENBERG - Is it commonly available? Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. Mr. McCLOY - Can you use that rifle without the clip? Mr. FRAZIER - Yes; you can. Mr. McCLOY - What is the advantage of the clip? Mr. FRAZIER - It permits repeated firing of the weapon without manually loading one shot at a time. Mr. McCLOY - The only other way you can fire it is by way of manual load? Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; one shot at a time. --------------------------------------------------------- There are two pictures that purportedly show the rifle clip in the gun as it left TSBD In one the trigger guard is obscured by the strap, in the other, there appears to be an object protruding at the trigger. It could be the rifle clip, all other pictures shown later are without this extension. If the protrusion is that obvious, how could it not be confused with a charger when Fritz held up the gun to ask the rifle make? Weitzman observing the clip, should have easily indicated the type just as they knew the caliber on the shell was 6.5. Markings on the gun of "Made in Italy" and "6.5" are large and clear as obvious indicators of make and model. Pictures at the scene show Fritz and Day closely examining the rifle, there is no reason to report 7.65 anything. Mausers are loaded from a "charger" (a.k.a. "stripper clip") which must be discarded after loading. While it is sometimes called a "clip," a charger has a completely different function. Seymour Weitzman called out the clip on one of his reports, then went on and documented this gun, with an obviously stuck MC clip, as a 7.65 German Mauser. He swore to it for 3 days.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Capasse on Dec 3, 2020 11:14:03 GMT -5
Other Rifles in the Building The Texas School Book Depository located at 411 Elm St. in Dallas TX was built in 1894. It went through a series name changes and operations before being sold to oilman, D H Byrd in 1939. Byrd was a close personal friend of LBJ and owned the property at the time of the assassination. After some grocery storage, and food distributors, it became a warehouse of school books and publishers. Inside the operations were the owners of the school book business as well as space rented to other publishers, Warren Casters was the Asst Manager of Southwest Publishing, one of the other distributors in the building. On Weds. Nov 20, 1963, two days before the assassination, he brought 2 guns into the building. These guns were seen by Lee Harvey Oswald, and was pointed out by him in his interrogations. It is remarkable that there is no mention of this incident anywhere in the 900 page Warren Report. The first indication comes May 06, '64, at the beginning of the testimony for FBI man Alan Belmont +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Alan H. Belmont | WC Testimony[first order of business]The CHAIRMAN - Well, gentlemen, the Commission will come to order. Mr. Belin, you had something you wanted the record to show in connection with our testimony yesterday. Mr. BELIN - Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN - Would you present it to the Commission now, please. Mr. BELIN - Yes, sir. We have a report from an FBI document that states Roy Truly when interviewed on November 22, advised that, "it is possible Oswald did see him with a rifle in his hands within the past few days," that is as of November 22, "as a Mr. Warren Caster, employed by Southwestern Publishing Co., which company has an office in the same building, had come to his office with two rifles, one was a .22 caliber rifle which Caster said he had purchased for his son, and the other a larger more high-powered rifle which Caster said he had purchased with which to go deer hunting if he got a chance," and Truly said that he examined the high-powered rifle and raised it to his shoulder and sighted over it and then returned it to Caster and Caster left with both rifles. Then Truly went on to state that he does not own a rifle and has had no other rifle in his hands or in his possession for a long-period of time. Now because of the problem that did arise, I believe the staff will promptly go down to Dallas to take the deposition of both Mr. Truly and Mr. Caster to fully get this in deposition form and find out where these rifles were as of November 22. The CHAIRMAN - And their caliber, and so forth. Mr. BELIN - Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN - Yes, sir; I think that is desirable. You ought to do that.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Capasse on Dec 3, 2020 11:15:03 GMT -5
Cast Your GunsLee Oswald 2:25 - 4:04 P.M. | Interrogation of Oswald, Office of Capt Will Fritz"I observed a rifle in the Texas School Book Depository where I work, on Nov. 20, 1963... Mr. Roy Truly, the supervisor, displayed the rifle to individuals in his office on the first floor..." Two days before the assassination, Warren Caster brought two guns into the Texas Book Depository Building. This was Nov. 20 th, hunting season was on, the holidays were about to begin, and he got a rifle for his son, and one for himself. He brought back a, "...Remington, single-shot, .22 rifle, and the other was a .30-06 sporterized Mauser."Lee Oswald observed them displayed to the office manager, Mr. Truly, in a public area on the first floor. FBI Agent James Hosty was in the room when Fritz asked about a rifle being brought into the building. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Assignment: Oswald | FBI agent James HostyFritz - “Did you have a rifle at work?” Lee - “No I didn’t, but the manager of book depository, Mr. Truly, did.” Fritz - “How do you know this?” Lee - “Cause he showed it to a bunch of us workers one day on the first floor” ---------------------------------------- FBI SA Carlson interviewed Caster on Nov. 24, '63, and the story was buried without further incident. Warren told the agent he had intended to keep the guns in his office until Christmas and give one as a gift. He then decided they might be stolen and brought them home on the same day. He told the Commission it was the end of the day. Then, a remark from Hoover to the Washington Evening Star, re: two additional rifles, sent the staff reeling. By early May, it had to be addressed. Mr. Caster had to be called and Mr. Shelley and Mr. Truly had to be called back. Instructions from the Chief Justice on May 6 th '64, indicate the Commission was not aware at all of the incident. The report, released in Sept. made no mention of this other Mauser. Yet, that was the same type of gun reported that day. FBI documents and witness testimony confirm the existence of these other rifles that appear nowhere in the report. Conflicts in the statements from Shelly and Truly vs. Caster exist in the time he took the guns out of the building. Both Shelley and Truly allude to him taking the guns home at about 1pm. Nobody saw Caster take the guns home at 4pm. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Roy Truly | WC TestimonyMr. BALL. On November 20, 1963, you saw two guns owned by Mr. Warren Caster, can you tell me where and when and the circumstances under which you saw these guns? Mr. TRULY. It was during the lunch period or right at the end of the lunch period on November 20. Mr. Caster came in the door from the first floor and spoke to me and showed me two rifles that he had just purchased.." Mr. BALL. And were they employees of the Texas School Book company on the first floor at that time? Mr. TRULY. Yes; they were---as I recall the time that the boys had ably gone back to work and could have been walking around before they went in the shipping department. Mr. BALL. That would have been about what time of the day? Mr. TRULY. I'd say around 1 o'clock--very close to it. It could have a little after or a little before. The boys go back to lunch at 12:45, so I'm not too clear. Mr. BALL. What happened to these two rifles, Mr. Truly, that Mr. Caster got during the noon hour? Mr. TRULY. They were placed back in the carton and Mr. Caster carried them out of the lobby door with him. That's the last I saw them. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ William Shelley | WC Testimony Mr. BALL. Did you handle the guns? Mr. SHELLEY. I held the .22. Mr. BALL. And was there another make of gun too---there was, wasn't there? Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; I believe there was a .30-06 Mauser that had been converted. It was a foreign make converted to a .30-06. Mr. BALL. Did you handle that? Mr. SHELLEY. No. Mr. BALL. What happened to the guns? Mr. SHELLEY. Well, we looked them over, like you do any new toy, and he puts them back in the box and goes out of the door. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Warren Caster | WC TestimonyMr. BALL. What did you do with the guns after that? Mr. CASTER. I put them back in the carton and carried them up to my office. Mr. BALL. And what did you do with them after that? Mr. CASTER. I left at the end of the working day, oh, around 4 o'clock and took the guns in the cartons and carried them and put them in my car and carried them home.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Capasse on Dec 3, 2020 11:15:27 GMT -5
Truly & ShelleyRoy Truly was the Building Manager, William Shelley was the Asst. Manager. There are conflicts between the two in their stories regarding this incident and others. Here, neither man can remember which employees were standing around when the guns were shown. Yet, Lee was very specific, "...Cause he showed it to a bunch of us workers one day on the first floor.." Truly makes out like he is not sure, just maybe, like they might have seen it in passing as they went back to work. These guys know their workers very well, it was not a detail easily forgotten under these circumstances. The two are inconsistent with Caster as to when the the rifle left their sight and eventually the building. Both made it out to be like he left the building when he walked away. That is not true. Mr. Caster is definite about taking the guns back to office, then leaving with them at the end of the day. No one saw Caster leave with the rifles that day, there is no proof the guns were out of the building on 11/22. Other conflicts between the two men are evident in the search for Lee right after the shooting, and the finding of his clipboard. Nor can Truly remember the finding of the gun bag, or who he might have spoken to on the way down from the roof. There is something very peculiar about statements that conflict with the way Truly moved around the building on 11/22. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just a MinutemanMeanwhile, ATF Agent Frank Ellsworth, was investigating gun running in the Dallas area. A sting was set up for Nov. 20 th involving James Mason, a gun dealer with contacts to "The Minutemen", a radical right wing organization involved with Gen Walker and the shipping weapons for a 2nd invasion of Cuba. But on Nov 18th the FBI (Agent Hosty) intercepted the transport and busted the drivers. The deal never went down. James Mason was arrested two days later Nov 20 th, and then released on minor charges. Documents from the DPD demonstrate an FBI coverup involving the status of Minutemen in the Dallas area or not. As the poster said on the link, this is an "interesting dichotomy", especially thru the windows of TSBD. It has nothing to do with Mr Caster, and without Hosty's name it wouldn't matter at all. Intentional omission of these incidents should raise suspicions how the investigation handled leads into other aspects. Conflicts in statements and documents even in such an innocuous matter, deserve further examination when paired in name, or time. The possibility exists there was gun running around TSBD. Billy Lovelady was arrested before TSBD for stolen guns in Sept 1960, then arrested again in Jan. '63 for skipping out on that bond. The Commission is very careful to avoid portions or all of these incidents. A coverup comes into view with the investigations obvious failure to open new leads as the evidence dictates.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Capasse on Dec 28, 2020 11:06:12 GMT -5
Gen. Edwin WalkerIn 1963 General Edwin Walker was retired from the Army having served in both WW II and the Korean War, and living in Dallas TX . He was known for being very vocal in his staunch conservative political views, such that Pres Eisenhower criticized him for public statements he made while still in uniform. His speeches were an appeal to continued segregation and anti communist rhetoric. When Walker attempted to resign in 1959, Ike refused to accept it and assigned him to the 24th Infantry Division in Augsburg, Germany. It was there he began promoting his own "Anti-Red" indoctrination program, called "Pro-Blue". It included literature from, segregationist, Reverend Billy James Hargis, and the John Birch Society. In 1961, he was admonished by the Joint Chiefs and forced to resign while serving under JFK, for referring to Harry Truman and Eleanor Roosevelt as "pink" and for attempting to influence the votes of his troops by violating the Hatch Act of 1939. In Sept 1962 he lead the segregationists at the University of MS in an attempt to stop African American James Meredith from registering. That broke out in riots forcing JFK to order federal troops from Memphis to Oxford. A delay from the Pentagon cost two civilian lives. In early '63, Walker joined Rev Billy Hargis, in an anticommunist brigade called "Operation Midnight Ride", to "...liquidate the [communist] scourge that has descended upon the island of Cuba..." Then the alleged assassination attempt on the General by Lee Oswald in April went unresolved until after JFK. Walker's involvement in The Minutemen, and a violent anti-Cuban sentiment raises questions on his part in 11/22. A direct part is not necessary if he is involved with organizing any further action on Cuba as well as stolen guns for that mission. It was only about a month before he had marshaled a direct attack on the US Ambassador to the UN, and was distributing "JFK: Wanted for Treason" handbills. These incidents were inexplicably not brought to the attention of the Protective Research Service when planning the trip to Dallas. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Edwin Walker | WikipediaWalker organized a verbal attack on Adlai Stevenson, US ambassador to the United Nations, on UN Day, October 24, 1963, in Dallas. In mid-October 1963, Walker rented the same Dallas Memorial Auditorium in which Stevenson would speak. He advertised his opposing event as "US Day" and he invited members of the John Birch Society, the National Indignation Convention, the Minutemen and other organizations opposed to communism and the United Nations.
The verbal attacks on Stevenson were traced to plans organized by Walker and his devotees in the John Birch Society, according to the November issue of the magazine Texas Observer. One month later, the black-bordered advertisement in the Dallas Morning News and the "Wanted for Treason: JFK" handbills of November 22, 1963 appeared on the streets of Dallas. They were traced to Walker and his associate Robert Surrey by the Warren Commission. After the assassination, Walker wrote and spoke publicly about his belief that there were two assassins at the "April Crime", Oswald and another person who was never found.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Capasse on Dec 28, 2020 11:06:49 GMT -5
The Walker IncidentAt about 9:00p on April 10, 1963, Gen. Walker was working on his income taxes in his home when someone took a shot at him with a high powered rifle. The bullet came thru a rear window and smashed thru the wall next to him. When police arrived at the house, Walker had already determined the location of the missile in the next room. The bullet was thought by both the press and the police to be a 30.06 steel jacket, but mutilated beyond caliber recognition. A slight movement from the General had saved his life. Walker told The Dallas Morning News, "..."When I saw the hole in the wall, I went upstairs and got my gun, then went outside to take a look. I didn't see anybody so I went back in the house and notified police." Meanwhile Lee Oswald was living about 7 miles away on W Neely St, and would have needed some sort of transportation to get there. There is no evidence or indication of any ride, or how he could traverse this distance without exposing the rifle. However there is a witness, Walter Kirk Coleman, in a neighboring house, claimed that immediately after the shooting he saw two men, in separate cars, drive out of a church parking lot adjacent to Walker's home. But Coleman could not identify either man as Lee Oswald. Furthermore, the type of bullet recovered and Lee's inability to drive, renders the Carcano difficult to prove as the weapon used. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I Know You RiderAllegedly after shooting at Walker, Lee ran away, and according to Marina, buried the rifle near some railroad tracks. Sometime after that, he retrieved the gun, and packed it in Mrs. Paines car with the family's other belongings to New Orleans. When friends on the stand were asked about the incident they became very dodgy, not remembering any Walker meetings or not knowing about the rifle or the shooting. Many years later Michael Paine admitted to FrontLine that he had seen a copy of a backyard photo, before Lee left for New Orleans and on the night of the assassination. George De Mohrenschildt also lied when he said he was unaware of a rifle, after receiving a signed copy of B Y photo before Lee left for New Orleans, it was found 4 years later. Again the Oswald FBI file needs to be considered in the second and third week of Oct. 1963. There was no excuse to ignore this time sensitive intelligence that could reveal what "subversive movements" were needed to gather this information. When Michael Paine was on the stand he was very specific that he did not go to any Walker meetings with Lee, and was very quick to push off who "they" were, when Marina said what "they" had told her. Inside the circle of friends, someone told Marina Lee had shot at Walker. On the stand Paine lied about the meetings and B Y photos, it wasn't him. De Mohrenschildt also denied it. Paine said each attended different events, but U S Day and John Birch meetings were both anti Kennedy events sponsored by Walker. Mr. BELMONT - The file contains the identity of some of our informants in subversive movements. It contains information as to some of the investigative techniques whereby we were able to receive some of the information which has been made available to the Commission." Michael Paine | WC TestimonyMr. LIEBELER - Do you remember going at any meeting with Lee Oswald at which Mr. Walker was present? Mr. PAINE - No---the only meeting I went to was the ACLU meeting, that I recall. Mr. LIEBELER - Do you recall going to any meeting yourself in October 1963, with or without Oswald, at which General Walker was present? Mr. PAINE - General Walker was present at the Oswald mentioned the U S Day meeting held by the rightists, which occurred a day or two or two nights before the ACLU meeting. He had been to that by himself. I had gone that same evening to a John Birch meeting. We were not together, but they were two things that occurred simultaneously, and that's where Lee, by his report at the ACLU meeting said he was and Walker was there. Maybe that's what Marina had in mind. Mr. LIEBELER - Marina Oswald goes on to testify and I will recapitulate part of it, "After they came back from some meeting, my husband said to me something about Walker being at this meeting and he said, Paine knows that I shot him."Do you have any reason to believe that--the first question, of course, is and I have already asked you that and you testified you did not know Oswald shot Walker prior to the assassination of President Kennedy; is that correct? Mr. PAINE - That's right. Mr. LIEBELER - Now, do you have any reason to believe that Oswald might have thought that you knew that he, Oswald, had shot at General Walker? Mr. PAINE - I can't see how he would have thought I knew that. I just don't see-- he might have said something that revealed that and I didn't catch his meaning, so it never sunk in to me at all, that is, to assume that he wasn't lying and that is the only way I can explain it. Mr. LIEBELER - So that you think that this testimony that Marina has given is either the result of a misapprehension, or a lie on Oswald's part or on Marina's part? Mr. PAINE - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - And you don't have any doubt about that whatsoever? Mr. PAINE - I am perfectly certain that I didn't know he shot at Walker. Mr. LIEBELER - Marina herself goes on to say: "I don't know whether this was the truth or not, I don't know whether it was true or not, but this is what they told me." And I presume she means that's what Lee had told her. Mr. PAINE - Now, wait--this is--it would be well to check for that "they"---this is testimony in June, you said, and that "they" could possibly be Martin and Thorne. I don't know much about Martin and Thorne either, but I had the impression that they were telling her stories.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Capasse on Dec 28, 2020 11:07:33 GMT -5
Let Slip Be KnownThere is evidence someone else had told Marina that Lee had taken the shot at Walker. It is very strange how Michael Paine and George de Morenschildt just happen to ascertain this without being told. How could they know without being aware of any rifle, and Marina vaguely used the words,"...this is what they told me." If Lee was not involved with the Walker shooting, how would she know otherwise based only on what "they" told her? Is that what prompted her to ask him directly, then what about Lee burning the notebook and Walker photographs? Liebeler never did clarify who "they" were when Marina let it slip on the stand and Michael Paine denied it was him. A copy of a B Y photograph was found by the De Mohrenschildts in 1967, it was signed on the back, "Hunter of Fascists" George lied when he said, he had "no inkling" Lee owned a rifle. Both men knew of the B Y photographs and lied about when they learned of them. Mrs. Paine added to the Houston Post, she'd have thought of Lee as early as Nov. 24 th. Marina Oswald | WC TestimonyMrs. OSWALD. "...By the way, several days after that, the De Mohrenschildts came to us, and as soon as he opened the door he said, "Lee, how is it possible that you missed?" I looked at Lee. I thought that he had told De Mohrenschildt about it. And Lee looked at me, and he apparently thought that I had told De Mohrenschildt about it. It was kind of dark. But I noticed---it was in the evening, but I noticed that his face changed, that he almost became speechless. You see, other people knew my husband better than I did. Not always--but in this case. George De Mohrenschildt | WC TestimonyMr. JENNER. Was there ever an occasion after this time, when you and Mrs. De Mohrenschildt came to see the Oswalds, that as soon as you opened the door, you said, "Lee, how is it possible that you missed?" Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Never. I don't recall that incident. Mr. JENNER. You have now given me your full recollection of that entire rifle incident? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Mr. JENNER. Mr. De Mohrenschildt, up to that moment, is it your testimony that you never knew and had no inkling whatsoever, that the Oswalds had a rifle or other weapon in their home? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Absolutely positive that personally I didn't know a damn thing about it, positive, neither did my wife. Mr. JENNER. And as far as you know your wife didn't either? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. No. Mr. JENNER. Did you see the weapon? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I did not see the weapon. Mr. JENNER. I won't show it to you then. Was there any discussion about the weapon thereafter? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. No, no discussion. That ended the conversation, the remark about Walker, ended the conversation. There was a silence after that, and we changed the subject and left very soon afterwards. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Houston Post | Nov. 24, 1963 Rifle was Stored in The Garage at Irving by Jim Criswell excerpt.. [Ruth] Paine said: If he killed the President that was a fanatical act... But before that I would not have called him a fanatic. But if it was a rational act I would have thought he would've shot at Gen. Edwin A Walker or something like that."
|
|
|
Post by Michael Capasse on Dec 28, 2020 11:08:00 GMT -5
HSCA | The Walker BulletThe strongest evidence against the Oswald rifle involved in the Walker shooting is ballistics. Dallas Police and news reporters at the scene said the bullet was so mangled, a caliber could not be determined. It was suggested to be a 30.06 steel jacket, lead bullet, very different from the 6.5mm copper jacket CE 573 in evidence. Walker testified the bullet went thru the wall and landed on some literature in the next room. With his knowledge of ballistics, he later challenged the House Select Committee directly on the bullet that was found. The first reports of a 30.06 bullet were printed in the Dallas Morning News in an article by Eddie Hughes. Hughes was at the scene, spoke to Walker and police directly and saw the damage and the bullet. The Dallas Police report from Det. Van Cleave described a steel jacket bullet of unknown caliber. The Commission did not introduce CE 573 into evidence with expected witness Genera Walker, instead went thru a series of pictures showing the path of the missile, Liebeler neglected to show him the actual bullet. The bullet was introduced by FBI ballistics expert Robert Frazier and although he testified he found nothing to indicate it did not come from the rifle, he was, "...unable to reach a conclusion" as to whether or not the bullet recovered from Walker's house had been fired from the rifle found on the sixth floor of the TSBD..." Spectographic Comparison "...the lead alloy of the bullet recovered from the attempted shooting of General Walker was different from the lead alloy of a large bullet fragment recovered from the car in which President Kennedy was shot." +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mutilated by ObstructionIn early Sept. 1978, General Walker was watching the House Select Committee on Assassination Hearings on television. At one point Chief Counsel Robert Blakey, held up CE 573 (the Walker Bullet), the General knew immediately it was not the missile recovered from his home. he wrote a mail gram directly to Blakey with no response. In Feb '79 he wrote to Dallas Chief of Police DA Byrd and Attorney General Griffin Bell, demanding the substitute bullet be withdrawn. By June of 1979 the HSCA had ceased it's investigation and neglected any further inquiry into a substituted Walker bullet. The General tried on last time with a letter to the Deputy Attorney General in June of 1979, there was no response or explanation. Walker letter to AG Bell | Feb 12 1979"...The bullet used and pictured on the TV, by the U.S. Senate G. Robert Blakey Committee on Assassination is a ridiculous substitute for a bullet completely mutilated by such obstruction bearing no resemblance to any unfired bullet in any shape or form. I saw the hunk of lead picked up by a policeman in my house, and I took it from him and I inspected it carefully. There is no mistake. There has been a substitution for the bullet fired by Oswald and taken out of my house.
It is requested that you withdraw the substituted bullet from all records and files pertaining to the assassination of John F. Kennedy and the attempted assassination of Walker and that you assure the security of the withdrawn bullet for future comparisons.
I desire to be informed of your actions.
Sincerely, Edwin A. Walker"++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just One LookA close examination of the Walker incident reveals a difficulty for Oswald to travel almost 7 miles with a rifle unseen. A witness at the scene saw two cars quickly leaving the adjacent parking lot after the shooting. Walter Kirk Coleman could not identify Lee Oswald as one of the men he saw leaving the scene. Two days before, a witness saw some guys creeping around the property looking into windows, and notified police. Walker suspected a former employee, but his own investigation could not confirm that or Lee Oswald as the shooter. The caliber of bullet was wrong, the jacket, and the condition of CE 573 does not match the mutilated bullet at the scene. There are obvious lies told by The Paines, Marina, and the de Mohrenschildts, regarding knowledge of the shooting, the rifle, or attending the Walker meetings, and Marina raised questions about who actually told her. Walker's direct dispute of the bullet evidence alone, destroys any assumption of the "Oswald rifle" as the weapon.
|
|