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Post by Tom Sorensen on Mar 4, 2020 4:23:36 GMT -5
This thread is a spin off from my other thread Oswald's first day at the TSBD. I wanted to see if something could be learned from studying the time records listed as Commission's Exhibit 1949. There are clues in Truly's testimony indicating that he had plenty of staff when he hired Oswald. Also, it couldn't hurt to see if hiring dates mentioned by Truly's "boys" could be verified. Finally, Frazier in his HSCA interview and C-SPAN interview with Gary Mack claims he worked overtime; this should be traceable in the time records. Only three time sheets are available covering October 16, 1963, through November 22, 1963, originally labelled FBI D-188. Note wording here when described by the FBI. This tells us the records available to the commission were preselected, surprise? Below are the time sheets to be discussed, unfortunately the quality is quite poor:
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Post by Tom Sorensen on Mar 4, 2020 4:30:32 GMT -5
These are my observations which will be discussed in further detail in the following posts: - The seniority of the employees is reflected in the list, at least for the ones I've checked, newcomers come last. GIVENS is a special case!
- Employee numbers were "recycled" starting November 18 resulting in some employees receiving new numbers
- Very little overtime recorded as I assume the numbers I've arrowed in green represent overtime
- FELTS was laid off as per TRULY's statement, worked at the Houston St. warehouse
- Odd mistake on last sheet where OSWALD was renamed LESLIE!
- "Dotted" workers were at the Elm St. warehouse.
Summary of hiring dates as described in their testimonies: #1(1) SHELLEY -- October 29, 1945 #2(2) AIKEN -- UNKNOWN
#6(6) DOUGHERTY -- 1952 (some confusion during testimony) #8(8) SHIELDS -- August 14, 1950
#13(13) WEST -- 1948 #5(5) JARMAN -- 1956 (on and off)
#39(1?) PIPER --1959/60 #9(17) NORMAN -- 1961 #10(7) LOVELADY -- December 16, 1961 #3(29)KAISER -- August 24, 1962 #19(99) ARCE -- September 6, 1963 #20(63) WILLIAMS -- September 8, 1963 #17(65) FELTS (TRUETT) -- Early September(?), 1963, Terminated November 15, 1963 #14(60) FRAZIER -- September 13, 1963 #15(15) GIVENS -- 1958 (off and on) #12(12) OSWALD -- October 15, 1963 In the posts to follow I will check the WC testimonies to see what else can be learned about their employment at the TSBD.
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Post by Tom Sorensen on Mar 7, 2020 4:39:24 GMT -5
Testimonies related to hiring dates and related details:
Bill SHELLEY (manager, TRULY's right hand)
Mr. BALL - What is your education? Mr. SHELLEY - High school.
Mr. BALL - What have you been doing since then? Mr. SHELLEY - I worked in defense plants a little bit during the war and started working at the Texas School Book Depository October 29, 1945.
Jack DOUGHERTY (shipping clerk) Mr. BALL - And that was when--in 1940, was it, you started to work at the Texas School Book Depository? Mr. DOUGHERTY - September 17, 1940.
Mr. BALL - 1940 what? Mr. DOUGHERTY - Let's see, I have been with them 11 years--that would be---
Mr. BALL - That would be 1952, wouldn't it? Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes--that's 1952.
Mr. BALL - 1952? Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; that's right, to be exact.
Mr. BALL - What did you do between the time you got out of the service and 1952? Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't do anything to be frank with you.
[Shelley and Dougherty on top of list make sense, but even here we see Dougherty throw out weird answers...how would he know the month and day but he is off more than ten years and after leaving the army the doesn't really do anything, really? The Dougherty interview must be one of the most bizarre within the WC volumes]
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Post by Tom Sorensen on Mar 8, 2020 3:03:16 GMT -5
Ed SHIELDS (reciever and shipper)Mr. BALL. What is your occupation? Mr. SHIELDS. I work in the shipping department, but some guy put it down that I worked as a shipping clerk. I do receiving and shipping with the shipping department.
Mr. BALL. Of what company? Mr. SHIELDS. With the Texas School Book Co. at 1917 North Houston, at the warehouse.
Mr. BALL. That's how far from the building that is at the corner of Houston and Elm? Mr. SHIELDS. Well, I'd say about three blocks down to this old building.
Mr. BALL. How long have you worked for the Texas School Book Co.? Mr. SHIELDS. It will be 14 years the 14th of August.
Mr. BALL. But you work in the warehouse? Mr. SHIELDS. I do. Troy WEST (mail wrapper)
Mr. BELIN - When did you start working for them? Mr. WEST - Well, I have been with them now about 16 years. Mr. BELIN - You have been with them 16 or 17 years? What company is that? Mr. WEST - Texas School Book Depository.
[Two more old-timers]
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Post by Tom Sorensen on Mar 9, 2020 3:04:49 GMT -5
James JARMAN (checker, aka Junior) Mr. BALL - How long did you stay in the Army this time? Mr. JARMAN - Until 1956.
Mr. BALL - And were you discharged then? Mr. JARMAN - Yes, I was.
Mr. BALL - Did you get an honorable discharge? Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - And what did you do after that? Mr. JARMAN - Well, I started working at the Texas School Book Depository for about 2 months after.
Mr. BALL - After you got out of the Army? Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
Mr. BALL - You are still there; are you? Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Was there any period of time since 1956 to 1964 that you didn't work there? Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
Mr. BALL - How many times? Mr. JARMAN - I started in 1956. I worked from August up until November, and I was laid off until December the same year and I started back again and I worked up until 1958 I believe, 1958 or 1959, and I quit there and went to Parkland Hospital. From there I went back to the Depository. And I got laid off again and I went to Bakers Hotel, and I think it was in 1961 I went back to the Depository and I have been there ever since.
[Shows TRULY had no problem hiring and firing staff]
Mr. BALL - What was your job at the Depository in November of 1963, last fall? Mr. JARMAN - Checker.
Mr. BALL - What does a checker do? Mr. JARMAN - He checks various orders, books and things that go out to different schools.
Eddie PIPER (janitor)
Mr. BALL. When did you go to work for the Texas School Book Depository? Mr. PIPER. Well, I would say I have been working for them about 4 or 5 years---I'm not sure---I don't know exactly.
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Post by Tom Sorensen on Mar 10, 2020 1:44:00 GMT -5
Harold NORMAN (order filler)
Mr. BALL. What kind of work did you do after you got out of school? Mr. NORMAN. Well, I remember working in Salina. I did a car washing job at the McElroy Chevrolet Co., and after I left there I came to Dallas and I started working at the depository, the School Book Depository.
Mr. BALL. That was about what year did you start working there? Mr. NORMAN. In 1961, I believe.
Mr. BALL. 1961? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. How long did you work there? Mr. NORMAN. Well, I think this coming October would have made 3 years.
Mr. BALL. And you work there now? Mr. NORMAN. No, sir.
Billy LOVELADY (stockman)
Mr. BALL - When did you go to work for Texas School Book Depository?Mr. LOVELADY - December 16, 1961, I believe it was.
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Post by Tom Sorensen on Mar 10, 2020 2:45:38 GMT -5
Frankie KAISER (workman)
Mr. BALL. What is your occupation? Mr. KAISER. Warehouse workman at the Texas School Book Depository. Mr. BALL. How long have you worked for that company? Mr. KAISER. Oh, just about 2 years. Mr. BALL. What time do you go to work down there? Mr. KAISER. Eight o'clock in the morning.
Mr. BALL What date did you go to work for them? Mr. KAISER. It was August 24, 1962.
(...) Mr. BALL. Where were you when the President's parade went by? Mr. KAISER. At the Baylor Dental College. Mr. BALL. Where? Mr. KAISER. At the Baylor Dental College.
Mr. BALL. Sir, you weren't anywhere near the School Book Depository? Mr. KAISER. No, sir; I was off Thursday and Friday with abscessed tooth. I was sitting in the chair and when I got off, we was out in the lobby watching it on TV down at the dental college there.
Mr. BALL. When did you go back to work? Mr. KAISER. It was the following Monday.
Mr. BALL. That would be the 25th, wouldn't it? Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir; I believe so--the 25th [I wonder why his entry in the time record showed 8 hours both Thursday and Friday if he wasn't anywhere near the Depository...did he have an agreement with Bill Shelley to be fully compensated without even a note to explain why he was absent just in case someone should ask? This leads to another question: since the TSBD workers didn't punch a clock, who filled in the hours on this sheet? Was it Mr. AIKEN, the guy who Mr. TRULY allegedly called about Lee OSWALD following the "roll call"? Most likely, since, according to TRULY, he was dealing with the application forms. I suspect kind of a HR helping hand -- before "Human Resources" existed -- and let's not forget that Mr. AIKEN was at the Houston St. warehouse which means somebody would have had to call in the numbers from the Elm location. Too bad we'll never know because the Warren Commission failed to call AIKEN. No wonder as TRULY was all over the place as to when he took note of Oswald gone missing. The only plausible reason not to call AIKEN would have been counselors BALL & BELIN's fear of sinking TRULY.
BTW, remember the story about Oswald's clipboard?
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Post by Tom Sorensen on Mar 12, 2020 3:25:50 GMT -5
Danny ARCE (order filler)
Mr. BALL. When did you go to work for the Texas School Book Depository? Mr. ARCE. I started in September---September, I believe, the 6th, September 6th.
Mr. BALL. Of what year? Mr. ARCE. 1963.
Mr. BALL. What kind of work were you employed to do? Mr. ARCE. Order filler.
Mr. BALL. What building did you work in? Mr. ARCE. At the warehouse.
Mr. BALL. At Houston and Elm? Mr. ARCE. No; that's on----
Mr. BALL. Which is this? Mr. ARCE. That's the one behind it; directly behind the Texas School Book Depository at Elm and Houston. [At 1917 North Houston]
Mr. BALL. You worked there most of the time as an order filler? Mr. ARCE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever work over at the building at 411 Elm? Mr. ARCE. Yes, sir; they were short of help up there and they sent me and the other boy down there.
Mr. BALL. Who is the other boy? Mr. ARCE. Bonnie Ray Williams.
Mr. BALL. They sent you out to do what? Mr. ARCE. Help lay out a floor on the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL. What date did they send you down there? Mr. ARCE. Sir, I don't remember.
Mr. BALL. October? Mr. ARCE. I know I had been there about 4 weeks when all that happened; I believe 4 or 5 weeks. I am not too sure about that.
Mr. BALL. You mean 4 or 5 weeks before November 22, 1963? Mr. ARCE. Yeah. Mr. BALL. Were you laying floor at that time? Mr. ARCE. Yes, sir; we laid floor on the fifth and then we were on the sixth when this happened.
[ARCE was the first in a trailing group of five employees (based on the statements available) who arrived in September 1963. Oswald was last, indicating he did join the group no earlier than mid-September. The interesting aspect about this group is how some of them were quickly reassigned to floor laying duty and one was laid off]
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Post by Tom Sorensen on Mar 13, 2020 2:50:01 GMT -5
Bonnie WILLIAMS (checker, order filler, ...)
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go? Mr. WILLIAMS. Then I found this job at the Texas School Book Depository. Mr. BALL. When did you get that job? Mr. WILLIAMS. Around about September 8th.
Mr. BALL. What year? Mr. WILLIAMS. 1963. (...) Mr. BALL. What kind of work did you do when you first went with the Texas School Book Depository? Mr. WILLIAMS. I think the first day I started work there they started me off as a wrapper. Then the fellows told me that I had qualifications to be a checker, so they put me on as a checker there.
Mr. BALL. What are you doing now? Mr. WILLIAMS. At the present time I do anything--check, pack, fill orders, anything.
Mr. BALL. When you went to work there, did. you work at the building on the corner of Houston and Elm? Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir. The first time I went there I was hired on at the other warehouse, the lower part of Houston Street.
[At 1917 North Houston] Mr. BALL. By lower part, do you mean north of the main building? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Down further, the big white building.
Mr. BALL. That is sort of a warehouse? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You went to work there. That is about a block, a block and a half north? Mr. WILLIAMS. A block and a half.
Mr. BALL. North of the corner of Houston and Elm? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And how long did you work at that place?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, I worked there until business began to get slow. I think that was--it was before November. I think it was some time during October. I am not sure.
Mr. BALL. And what did they put you to work at at that time? Mr. WILLIAMS. They called me up to help lay a floor on the fifth floor, they wanted more boards over it. As I say, business was slow, and they were trying to keep us on without laying us off at the time. So I was using the saw, helping cut wood and lay wood.
Mr. BALL. You were laying a wood floor over the old floor? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. On the fifth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And when you finished on the fifth floor, what did you do? Mr. WILLIAMS. After we finished on the fifth floor, we started to move up to the sixth floor. But at the time we didn't complete the sixth floor. We only completed just a little portion of it.
Mr. BALL. By the time, you are talking about November 22d? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Before November 22d, how long had you been laying floor in the building at Houston and Elm? Mr. WILLIAMS. Before November 22d, I think we had been working on the fifth floor, I think, about 3 weeks. I think altogether I had been up there just about 4 weeks, I think.
Mr. BALL. And how long had you been on the sixth floor before how long have you been working on the sixth floor before November 22? Mr. WILLIAMS. Let's see. Before November 22d, I think it might have been 2 days--it might have been 2 days. I would say about 2 days, approximately 2 days.
[Good detailed info from WILLIAMS who was moved to Elm with ARCE. No doubt that business was slow mid-October so TRULY assigns newly hired order filler and checker to floor laying duty while hiring another rookie order filler Oswald -- DOH]
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Post by Tom Sorensen on Mar 14, 2020 4:27:01 GMT -5
Truett FELTS (according to TRULY)Mr. DULLES. Do you recall, Mr. Truly, whether you hired any personnel for work in this particular building, in the School Depository, after the 15th of October and before the 22d of November?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I don't recall hiring anyone else other than Oswald for that building the same day that I hired Oswald. I believe, if I am not mistaken, I hired another boy for a temporary job, and put him in the other warehouse at 1917 North Houston.
[Strange wording by Truly, restricting himself to hiring the same day as Oswald -- that's not what Dulles asked. Then TRULY does believe he hired another boy which, from looking at the records, we must conclude was GIVINS. Again, seems like TRULY is trying not to perjure himself so what is he covering up? Might be another reason the FBI withheld records going back further than October 16. Finally, we are also not told when GIVENS was called back (see next post). Coincidence?]
Mr. DULLES. At a different warehouse? Mr. TRULY. At a different warehouse. He was laid off November 15th, I believe November 15th, or something like that.
[Verified by time sheet (red arrow), TRUETT "Terminated", and he is recorded in the group of September '63 newcomers, looks plausible. But....Truett is listed in front of Frazier who said he arrived on September 13, so why mention Truett when the record shows it must be GIVENS? Was this simply an honest mistake by TRULY? However, it doesn't change the fact that he hires temporary staff in September, run low on orders in October and hire one more temporary order filler named Oswald]
Buell FRAZIER (order filler)
Mr. BALL - Then you started work there about what date in September?Mr. FRAZIER - It was the 13th. I say that was the same day I went for an interview. I went early enough that morning that he told me to come back after lunch. (...) Mr. FRAZIER - I first heard, I never really did know his name, we just called him Lee around there. But the first time I ever saw him was the first day he come to work. Mr. BALL - Had you heard he was coming to work before he came to work?
Mr. FRAZIER - I will say, you know, talking back and forth with the bossman all the time and from being around and getting along real fine and so he told me, I assume the day after he hired him that he was going to have him come in on Monday and he asked me had I ever seen him and I told him then no; I had never seen him. (At this point, Representative Ford entered the hearing room.)
[Oh dear, how could Buell know he had never seen him if he'd never seen him before? The only plausible reason for bossman (must be SHELLEY or TRULY) to ask Buell would be the Irving connection. And no, it wasn't a Monday. Oswald came on a Wednesday (allegedly) so why would Buell assume anything regarding a Monday when Oswald showed up the day after "bossman" hired him?]
Mr. BALL - Had your sister told you that this fellow Lee was coming to work? Mr. FRAZIER - Yes; she did. She said one afternoon when I went home she told me she found out from one of the neighbors there he came over for that interview with Mr. Truly and Mr. Truly had hired him. [FoS Buell. If TRULY hired him on the spot Tuesday 15 there was no time for "sis" to learn anything prior to Wednesday 16]
Mr. BALL - You heard that from your sister? Mr. FRAZIER - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Before you saw him? Mr. FRAZIER - Right, before I saw him.
[BOOM -- official story going down in flames!]
Mr. BALL - When you first saw him was it a Monday morning? Mr. FRAZIER - Yes; it was.
Mr. BALL - Do you have any idea of the date itself, do you have any memory of the date when you first saw him? Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BALL - Was it sometime around the middle of October, do you think, would that be close to it? [discussing Oswald] Mr. FRAZIER - It could have been because it was sometime in October because I remember I went to work there on the 13th and I had been working there, 4 or 5 weeks and then he come there. [Buell sort of backs the official story but BALL now knows that the WC narrative is a lie]
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